What is church? Prt2
if you have not read part 1 then you need to go back and read it before you read this because this is a continuation of it….
Militant v Victorious church
The fourth dimensions we need to look at is that of Militant v Victorious church. The Militant church is another way of saying the suffering church that struggles to deal with a world that does not understand it and if it does, wants to stand against it (John 12:25, 1 John 3:13). The victorious church is the church that we will see at the end of time when Jesus brings all his own together. A couple of pictures of this can be seen in Revelation 7:9 and Revelation 19-22. Confusing these two can be very dangerous.
Overemphasizing the militant church can lead to withdrawal (sectarianism), or seeking only to transform society (social gospel), or having an entrenched sense of persecution (i.e. expecting persecution from every angle). But this is not always the case. Preaching the Gospel is God’s means of salvation and people can and do respond.
Overemphasizing the victorious church can lead to people living out what should be a victorious life here and now. This may lead to what is known as a “over realized eschatology” meaning that people will expect what is promised in heaven now – blessing, immunity to illnesses and sin.
Organic v Organisational church
The last dimension is that of organic v organisational church. There are the relationships that we have in church. This is the organic church. Then there are the structures that the church needs for people to love each other. Because the church is loving it is to be ordered (1 Corinthians 14:40, Colossians 2:5). We see this in action in the Jerusalem church in Acts. In chapter 2 a community of at least 3,000 has come into being. But by 5:1-11 we see the need for church discipline. In 6:1-11 we see the need for new structures to be introduced so that the church can continue to be a loving community.
The key here is that the church organic needs to drive the church organisational. Structures are there to help people love each other, not the other way around. So we need to be prepared to sacrifice and change structures so that people can continue to love each other.
So, here are 5 dimensions of church? Are there some that are over emphasized? Are there some that are missing? You tell me….
July 30, 2009 at 10:56 am
I’m sure this is implied at various points (not least in your commitment to membership), but it might be good to articulate a bit more clearly what the church community looks like. That is, my experience of Sydney churches has been pretty heavily events-based — church is an event to attend, rather than a community to belong to. That might help people understand what they’re signing up for: is it a Sunday meeting which I’m supposed to attend 3 weeks in 4, or are you wanting to be involved in my life and be able to make comments about how I spend my income?
August 1, 2009 at 9:25 pm
To be completely and brutally honest, I am coming out of that “events-based” mentaility as you put it and trying to move into the more community based approached seen in “Total Church” and “Soma Communities” (no formal relation to us and not what why we called ourselves what we did – but helpful), so I am trying to work out “what it looks like”. The team and I have agreed that it will take a while to get right and in the meantime we will make a lot of mistakes as we seek to change the way we do things, and more importantly, the way we think about church – but I think we are getting there!
So, the short answer is – I don’t know what it will look like at this stage, but I am looking forward to seeing it!!
July 30, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Great article. Excellent insight. I’d like to share it at my site. May I?
A potentially missing dimension of the church could be a simple elaboration of Visible and Invisible Church. I’m glad you have discovered relationship with God in Christ; what He has made us surpasses what we do. Yes, we work but Jesus builds His Church to be.
Our individual purpose is to glorify God our Father by being what He has made us in Christ. “… to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory” (Ephesians 1:12 NASB).
Our collective purpose as the Church is to glorify God our Father by being what He has made us in Christ. “Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever. Amen” (Ephesians 3:20-21 NASB).
Shalom
August 1, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I should point out that this is a summary of a larger work that I am working on. And yes your were right to point out Eph 3:20-21 (and I would add Eph 3:10 as well). Are you saying that the church is not just to ‘do’ but to bring glory to God by merely ‘being’? In which I case I agree, but you would not have got that from the blog entry.
August 1, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Great to hear that you’re looking for ways to do it differently. It’s not easy! The guys at Soma Tacoma should help
We’re at The Crowded House at the moment, but we’re coming back to Sydney in December. We expect there to be a lot of challenges as we look for ways to work out our theology and values in a different context. So we look forward to seeing what you’ve discovered.
August 6, 2009 at 1:53 am
hey Pete. be keen to see that larger work you are doing at some point!
August 6, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Sam, so would I! It’s finding the time to do write it! Hopeful will have a draft by the end of the year.
September 22, 2009 at 4:31 am
This discussion is VERY relevent and I believe right where God is moving at the moment. Many Christian folk don’t go to church any more because they’ve been burnt out trying to do more and more for God. It is so easy to get sucked in to the system of church and actually believe that title and position actually matter to God? WRONG! God is Love. Full stop. Ponder that a moment and let it sink in. He doesn’t have good days and bad days he is constant and the only outward expression of himself is love. So why do we feel we need to work so hard to earn his love and his grace and blessing. Why? well firstly it’s a plot of Satan’s to distract us from God and stop us from fully knowing God. But also unfortunately there are church leaders and church systems that would try to exploit people so their church or their ministry gets bigger and better and they become more famous etc etc. I absolutely love the concept of church you have there at Soma. I truely hope that as you grow (and I know you will) you will be able to keep it low key and relational. There is a fantastic book I’d like to recommend called “So you don’t want to go to church anymore”. The title is a bit off putting and it certainly trying to convince people to drop out of church but it does really make you think about why we do church and what it should look like.
September 22, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Thanks, for the comments! Will chase up the book, sounds very helpful!
February 15, 2010 at 3:44 am
[...] is a new church startup in Sydney and they’ve blogged some useful ideas. Writing here and here, they sketch out “church” in terms of five dimensions. Possibly related posts: [...]